People are so divided about who should pay for what when dating. Some of my friends have rules: first date the guy pays, then you split; never let the girl pay; asker pays either way. Some just do whatever feels natural when the check comes.
It's always a little bit awkward. I'm a big fan of always offering to split without pushing it to a level of embarrassment. My logic is to let the guy feel chivalrous if that means something to him, and not feel like he's snagged a freeloader if it doesn't.
My ex was a pretty special guy. After taking me out to a nice dinner as our first "formal" date (although we had been together for some time), he then initiated an equally formal and vaguely aggressive conversation about his personal protocol. "I believe that the guy pays for the first date and from then on everything is split." A little embarrassed (I had in no way given him the impression that I thought otherwise), I nodded vigorously and added it to my mental list of Awkward Encounters with My New Boyfriend.
During our short relationship, I ended up picking up the entire tab more than once, and spotted him a few bucks when he was short and didn't want to use his fully-loaded debit card- never repaid, of course. I also spent about $80 on gas a week going back and forth to his house, since he said he hated driving over here. As a side note, this was not a guy barely scraping by. He drove a Mercedes and was living at home rent-free for the summer in a very nice home outside of LA. He had a paid internship, but his parents paid for about everything- he didn't even know that gas was up to 4.60/gal because he didn't fill his own tank (yeah. I know.). As a second side note, it was very clear to all that I was, in fact, scraping by. It's not that I think he should have paid for me more often because he had the means. I just wish he hadn't mortified me with his rules and regulations after our first date.
Dating- Who pays?
August 11th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
August 11th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
August 11th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
August 12th, 2008 at 03:15 am
I've recently been out on 2 dates with the same girl.
First date I paid. I had told myself I was going to pay before the date so I did - without asking the girl. Its what I was brought up to believe was chivalrous behaviour.
Second date - Girl grabs the bill as it arrives to the table and makes moves to pay it all herself. I mini-freaked out: we were the only ones in the restaurant at the time so no embarrassment factor - after a "ah, don't do that" plea, we split the bill.
I don't know why but when she grabbed the bill, she might as well have kneed me in the goohoonies !! :-) Ladies paying for dates just goes against all that I was taught by my parents. Anytime my parents go out to a bar/restaurant, my father pays each and every time. This probably has something to do with my mother being a SAHM.
But still I feel like I failing in my duties as a man if I don't pay. To be honest, if a girl didn't let me pay on a first date, chances are that there won't be a second date.
I'm fine with splitting from the second date onwards, but I think that girls should just play the game and allow men act chivalrously instead of trying to make a feminazi statement (an unbelievable turn-off for me). All the girls have to do is LET US THINK we are in control - when in reality, the girls are the ones in control in most relationships.
August 12th, 2008 at 06:48 am
Anyway, when I read these posts I just cringe. I think dating is such a mind field on this issue. So though I am very pro women empowerment, I am seeing what happens when some people forge ahead in independence, and others hold on to more traditional values.
Needless to say, glad I am not dating. LOL.
On one hand, it was never an issue, so I would guess it could be a good initial test of compatibility. I never had interest in dating anyone who wasn't going to appreciate my independence. But I could easily see very compatible people getting caught up in this issue and not going on that second date. Kind of a shame.
But seriously, I think it is in how you approach it. I dates a lot before I met my hubby at 18 and it was just never an issue. Never had a guy scared off because I wanted to pay my own way. Maybe more of an issue if I was older and/or dated well into my 20s. I just don't think I come off as very intimidating. So I am kind of surprised to see some of the male responses in these discussions. Not my own experience. But if I was a really intimidating feminist, yeah, I could see it. Or maybe poor college students can appreciate a girl paying her own way - I don't know.
August 12th, 2008 at 08:35 am
August 12th, 2008 at 04:35 pm
August 12th, 2008 at 06:24 pm
That said, when BF & I started dating, I always offered to pay for my part, or the whole thing every now and then. He never let me, so when we had been dating a while, I started to insist on paying every now and then.
We never really had an issue of it though, I honestly never gave it a second thought, I would just offer to pay every now and then, or if I knew he had bills coming due, etc. We never kept tabs or anything.
August 12th, 2008 at 06:26 pm
You talk about the XBF, is there a new one which is doing any better?
August 12th, 2008 at 08:23 pm
Splitting is fair and equitable. I agree 100% with it.
However on the first date/first couple of dates I really would prefer to pay. Why ?? Because I am courting the lady. Because I want to be able to entice her with pleasurable food and good conversation. I want her to sit back and relax - have nothing whatsoever to worry about other than enjoying herself.
I'm gonna be controversial here and annoy some people but here it goes:
THE REASON I DON'T LIKE LETTING THE LADY PAY ON THE FIRST DATE:
I love feminine women. I love women who wear their hair long, wear dresses and are elegant. That's just my type. The most positive/life-enhancing experiences I've had with women have been with feminine women. They acted like women. I acted like a man. UNTIL WE GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER BETTER. Then sure I am open to negotiation on everything. If the women I love wants to buy a 1000 dollar dinner in the Ritz in Paris- I'm there !! lol If she wanted to share her stale bread with me - I'm there also.
A lot of women of my age in my country have taken the Oprah Winfrey brand of female empowerment (Please understand. I love women. I love female empowerment, female independence and women who are happy.) and turbo-maxed it into "whatever a man can do, I can do 10 times better", "men - who needs 'em", "hey, I can open my own door, thank you very much !!", "no you won't pay for me...what - u think u can buy me ???" etc etc etc......
I don't think true female empowerment necessitates the debowelling/castration of men - the ripping away of the VERY FEW little remnants of male chivalry/generosity/thoughtfulness by the Girlpower brigade.
I am afraid that the baby is being thrown out with the bath water. If a man paying on the first date is the biggest empowerment issue facing women today, the feminist movement can retire - it's work is done.
p.s. again let me stress I believe in both genders reaching their full potential & living life to the max !
August 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am
To answer the blog post in question, I always offer to split. If he wants to pay, fine. I don't just expect him to pay, just like I don't expect him to expect me to pay.
August 17th, 2008 at 08:47 am
Cargirl86.... I am not a feminist scholar...nor am I a scholar in men's studies....I never claimed that I understand everything there is to know about the feminist movement. My point that I intended to make was as follows: I'm sure there are 1001 more important issues for women to be fighting against than men paying on the first date.
To OP - Kim : Sorry if I have hijacked your post... it was a great topic in that it aroused some strong emotions !! ( in me anyway :-) ). Your statement "My logic is to let the guy feel chivalrous if that means something to him, and not feel like he's snagged a freeloader if it doesn't." I believe this is perfect for a first date and I would split there on after - when/if the two of you start a relationship and move on past courting !!!
p.s. I must concentrate on how to write shorter posts..they always end up longer than I intended !!
August 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I understand the initial reaction of the women who have posted (basically: are you serious?). I am all about female empowerment and more than that, equality, but I'm not really about to jump down Apprentice's throat. He's not saying that he wants women to be helpless or insecure- just that he likes feminine women. Plenty of girls don't want men to be chauvinistic or sloppy, but they prefer masculine men. In my mind it's about the same thing. If a woman doesn't like a man who adheres to old-fashioned chivalry, and prefers to open her own doors and pay her own way (which is more than respectable) then she simply won't date Apprentice.
Oh and to answer the other question- no new bf. Last one didn't inspire a lot of confidence in humanity, in general.
August 18th, 2008 at 09:34 pm
but i mean hey, that's just me.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
December 30th, 2008 at 02:02 pm
June 13th, 2009 at 08:28 pm